Regulation is on its way

[Rusty]

Innovation in the use, design and regulation
of nicotine delivery medicines
4.31 The Medicines and Healthcare products
Regulatory Agency (MHRA) regulates nicotine
delivery medicines, and so will invite applications
for licences to cover the new routes to quitting.
4.32 Nearly a fifth of smokers use NRT, bought
from a retail outlet, to assist their quit attempt
by cutting down in certain situations. However,
feedback from smokers suggests that NRT is
not easily accessible (unlike tobacco) and can
be expensive (which introduces a disincentive to
use it).16
4.33 The MHRA will encourage manufacturers
to develop and market new and improved
products. At the same time, the Government
will work with the pharmaceutical industry
and retailers to encourage the development
of improved pack information, guidance and
training packages for retailers on the use of
nicotine delivery medicines, so that smokers
can be better informed and retailers feel more
confident in talking to their customers about the
products.
4.34 The Government will also work with the
pharmaceutical industry and other partners to
dispel the myths surrounding the harms from
nicotine. While it is the nicotine within the
tobacco that the smoker craves and is addicted
to, it is the tar and the carbon monoxide in
smoked tobacco that are the causes of smoking related
disease and death.
4.35 We believe that these actions will
encourage innovation in the use, design and
marketing of nicotine delivery medicines.
However, over the past year, we have already
seen the emergence of many different forms of
nicotine delivery systems, including e-cigarettes
and nicotine hand gels. These products
are unregulated and their safety remains
undetermined.
4.36 Given the pharmacological action of
nicotine, the Government will create a level
playing field by regulating all products that
contain nicotine (apart from tobacco, which is
regulated by specific tobacco legislation) under
medicines safety legislation. This will mean that
any producer of a nicotine-containing product
or nicotine delivery medicine will need to meet
certain requirements for safety, quality and
efficacy, in order to protect the public. The first
step towards the creation of this new regulatory
scheme for nicotine-containing products will be
a public consultation, to be undertaken by the
MHRA and launched alongside this strategy.
4.37 The Government will ensure that no
nicotine-containing products or nicotine delivery
medicines can be marketed in a way that
promotes or encourages tobacco use. We will also
keep nicotine delivery medicines under review.
In particular, we will monitor the impact of the
medicines’ availability on quit rates at a national
level, the safety implications of long-term use of
the medicines and the potential for their abuse....

For a fuller story, keep your eyes peeled on this thread;

http://vapersnetwork.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=166

I cannot think of any words constructive or otherwise at the moment 

[Marctwo]

This sounds quite good to me.

Now, my base liquids and flavours won't fall under this regulation so I wander how nicotine itself will fall under this???

[Jackie]

This sounds quite good to me.

Now, my base liquids and flavours won't fall under this regulation so I wander how nicotine itself will fall under this???

It's far from good.  Any product containing nicotine will likely fall under regulation.  This could mean you will only be able to get nicotine products via prescription, it could mean liquids will be banned, it could mean any number of restrictions will be placed on our use of ecigs.

If you mix your own liquids you still need to get a nicotine base from somewhere.  And it would also likely mean that any potential new vapers out there who would otherwise continue to smoke won't be able to get their hands on vaping gear easily.

As far as I see it, it contains nothing but bad news.

Rusty should have probably mentioned that the above is an extract from the paper released today by the department of health on their tobacco control strategy.

[Rusty]

I should have Jackie - but I was posting in disbelief!  It's put me off my Beer 

That is bad 

[Marctwo]

It's far from good.  Any product containing nicotine will likely fall under regulation.

ok

This could mean you will only be able to get nicotine products via prescription, it could mean liquids will be banned, it could mean any number of restrictions will be placed on our use of ecigs.

Wow... talk about the glass being half empty.

It doesn't say any of that - that's just back to the usual 'what if' negative gossip.

It could mean e-cig's will be handed out free to smokers as patches/inhalators currently are.  But again, it doesn't say that.

If you mix your own liquids you still need to get a nicotine base from somewhere.

No, I won't.  I'll want to get some nicotine though.   But will nicotine itself be classed as a nicotine delivery medicine???

And it would also likely mean that any potential new vapers out there who would otherwise continue to smoke won't be able to get their hands on vaping gear easily.

You're making it up again.  A battery powered heating device is not a medicine - just as a syringe is not a drug.

Of course, they could get their vaping gear free just as they currently can get their patches free.  But now I'm making it up again.

As far as I see it, it contains nothing but bad news.

It's funny how we find what we look for.

Rusty should have probably mentioned that the above is an extract from the paper released today by the department of health on their tobacco control strategy.

It seems even better then that they're deciding to catagorise e-cig's along with NRT rather than tobacco products... doesn't it?

[Jackie]

I invite you to research further Marc.  If you think I'm making things up, fair enough, good luck to you. 

Meanwhile, I shall be writing a personal response to this paper in the forlorn hope that the vaping community will be listened to.

[scaryclairy]

I sincerely hope they listen to you, Jackie. 

I have been a hardcore 25+ a day smoker for 31 years until I found my ecig a couple of weeks ago.  If they take this away, I will, I think be forced back on the "turds".

I have tried numerous times with NRT, but couldn't stop thinking about having a fag and always caved in.  The ecigs are the way forward - I do not miss analogues one bit now. As I said, I have only been vaping for a couple of weeks and the thought of going back to the stinkies wrankles me.

Surely logic will prevail on this issue?  Why "force" people back to the deadly chemicals when a safer alternative is at hand for us all?

Good luck, and if you want to start a petition, count me in.

[Rusty]

Ay Up scaryclairy - welcome to the LF Forum and congratulations in kicking the turds 

There is already a petition;

http://www.petitiononline.com/vaping/petition.html

[scaryclairy]

Thanks Rusty - have just signed said petition.

btw - love your pub!  A bit shy to pop in for the evening just yet, maybe after a couple of wines at home    Brilliant idea, I see where you were coming from.  My local's a nightmare for smokers; but I've got the advantage now 

[Jackie]

Welcome Scary!

Thanks for signing the petition - you can also write a personal response to the consultation paper if you'd like, and/or write to your local MP. 

I suggest anyone who is interested follows the sub forum set up by Kate at Vapers Network here - http://vapersnetwork.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=43

There's also an ongoing thread about the situation here - http://ukvapers.com/showthread.php?t=423

Otherwise, Rusty is doing a sterling job keeping everyone updated here and at other places. 

[scaryclairy]

a copy of my letter to my MP written and sent tonight.

Dear Crispin Blunt,

Re: "Innovation in the use, design and regulation
of nicotine delivery medicines 4.31 The Medicines and Health care products
Regulatory Agency (MHRA) regulates nicotine
delivery medicines, and so will invite applications
for licences to cover the new routes to quitting.
4.32 Nearly a fifth of smokers use NRT, bought
from a retail outlet, to assist their quit attempt
by cutting down in certain situations. However,
feedback from smokers suggests that NRT is
not easily accessible (unlike tobacco) and can
be expensive (which introduces a disincentive to
use it).16
4.33 The MHRA will encourage manufacturers
to develop and market new and improved
products. At the same time, the Government
will work with the pharmaceutical industry
and retailers to encourage the development
of improved pack information, guidance and
training packages for retailers on the use of
nicotine delivery medicines, so that smokers
can be better informed and retailers feel more
confident in talking to their customers about the
products.
4.34 The Government will also work with the
pharmaceutical industry and other partners to
dispel the myths surrounding the harms from
nicotine. While it is the nicotine within the
tobacco that the smoker craves and is addicted
to, it is the tar and the carbon monoxide in
smoked tobacco that are the causes of smoking related
disease and death.
4.35 We believe that these actions will
encourage innovation in the use, design and
marketing of nicotine delivery medicines.
However, over the past year, we have already
seen the emergence of many different forms of
nicotine delivery systems, including e-cigarettes
and nicotine hand gels. These products
are unregulated and their safety remains
undetermined.
4.36 Given the pharmacological action of
nicotine, the Government will create a level
playing field by regulating all products that
contain nicotine (apart from tobacco, which is
regulated by specific tobacco legislation) under
medicines safety legislation. This will mean that
any producer of a nicotine-containing product
or nicotine delivery medicine will need to meet
certain requirements for safety, quality and
efficacy, in order to protect the public. The first
step towards the creation of this new regulatory
scheme for nicotine-containing products will be
a public consultation, to be undertaken by the
MHRA and launched alongside this strategy.
4.37 The Government will ensure that no
nicotine-containing products or nicotine delivery
medicines can be marketed in a way that
promotes or encourages tobacco use. We will also
keep nicotine delivery medicines under review.
In particular, we will monitor the impact of the
medicines’ availability on quit rates at a national
level, the safety implications of long-term use of
the medicines and the potential for their abuse...."


Sir,

I would just like to inform you of my own personal circumstances regarding the above.

I have been a hard core smoker from the age of 13, smoking 25+ a day. I have tried many times using NRT to quit this habit due to the dangerous effects on my health. However, I have always felt the urge to go back to tobacco.

That is, until I found E-cigarettes. What a difference this has made to my life. I no longer stink of "fags", nor do I pass this smell on to my child when I hug him, or subject him, or anyone else to all the poisons that are associated through passive smoking. By using Ecigs, I/we do not inhale the 4000+ carcinogens that are found in tobacco based products.

The Ecig has done what I thought nothing else could ever do. I am rid of smoke forever. Well, I would be if the government passes through legislation that E-cigs and all their component parts and additives are still widely available without prescription.

We are self-governed already by accepting that, as smokers of normal cigarettes, we can kill ourselves. But if legislation takes away our other self-govenerned right to buy Ecigs and other NRT's that work for us i.e. Ecigs and nicotine based Ejuices, there must be some serious conflict in that legislation itself.

Look at what the smoking ban has done to our local pubs and clubs. Attendance has dropped drastically and as a result, people are drinking and smoking more at home; jobs and livelihoods have been lost. An inumerate amount of closures of pubs etc have happened as a result. Ecigs would allow people to smoke again indoors at these places and I am sure this would make them want to go out and socialise again.

The benefits are outstanding to both our culture and social welfare.

I ask that you consider these thoughts when the question arises in parliament.

Yours sincerely,

C Hughan

[Maz]

I cannot see them being able to regulate against the hardware, but even if they change the law to accommodate this we can source from abroad.

If the worst happens and juice is regulated as a 'medicine' we can again source from outside the UK.

They cannot ban nicotine as they have other drugs because that will ruin their tobacco racket, and that's just too valuable to the treasury. Therefore nicotine can never become a controlled substance and we cannot be prosecuted for importing it for personal use.

If they decide to tax it heavily however, we're up shit creek.

I'll bet their most keen interest is in taxation, we have an addiction and they are currently not getting their 'share' of the proceeds. The government view the populace in much the same way as a pig farmer sees his animals, he wants to keep the farm running and the collective healthy enough for him to profit from them - nothing more.   

[240Vaper]

I guess there's no industry body to represent us - the problem seems to be the cost of authorisation.The consultation document bangs on about the savings to govt from stopping smoking.If LF,TW et al could gather some stats about how many had stopped thru vaping,they may argue that any authorisation cost should be waived.

Is it a non-starter for Abe & Jason to put their heads together on this one?Jason seems to be panicking - would it be overly cynical to suggest that panic buying before and higher (regulated) prices after might be in the interests of some

[Jackie]

would it be overly cynical to suggest that panic buying before and higher (regulated) prices after might be in the interests of some

Not from where I'm sitting it wouldn't be, no.  I plan to stock up as much as I can.

[pillbox38]

Is it a non-starter for Abe & Jason to put their heads together on this one?Jason seems to be panicking - would it be overly cynical to suggest that panic buying before and higher (regulated) prices after might be in the interests of some

More than Cynical Damn right offensive..

The facts are simple, and by the way im not Panicking...It had to happen , it has, it needs dealing with.

Whats her name who posted about the Tax being the issue is 100% incorrect.. In simplistic terms...

On the 21st June, nicotine containing products unless licensed will be banned in the Uk... A fact..

Yes you can source overseas.

yes you can sell the hardware.

No its no easy process to get a product licensed and its expensive.

So in a nutshell the only light at the end of the Tunnel is to push for option 2...This at least gives people a years Grace...

[Rusty]

Ay Up Jason,

Welcome to the LF Forum, the friendliest forum this side of Shafton Two Gates 

[pillbox38]

Rusty i appreciate the welcome but im not so sure its particularly friendly towards myself... But in difficult times its worth sticking together... And i had to answer the Post regarding eliciting panic buying..

[elly]

I do not believe that there is a vested interest here.  Sure e-cig companies have a lot to gain by impulsive buying beforehand, but they would stand to lose far more than they could ever hope to gain.  Even if you bought litres of your favourite vape juice from LF, TW, Dekang, OK Smokey, Johnsonns Creek, etc, you'd be on limited supplies due to the regulation they intend to enforce, all UK companies supplying it would likely go under in months, possibly weeks, we customers would be forced to try and import it from somewhere else, and everyone loses.

So instead of everyone flinging mud at one supplier or another, or one member or another, we should stand together and fight this thing, every vaper in the UK stands to lose, do you really want to be on the sidelines and let the decision be made for you?

Well said iStormUK we need to re-unite and fight this together. Standing as one is the only way we can beat them 

[elly]

POWER TO THE VAPERS LET US STAND TOGETHER AND BEAT THE BUGGERS

[prof beard]

Well said Elly

EVERYONE - send in a response - don't emotional, just let them know why/how you vape and what it means to you.  I want to be able to use the device I choose with the liquid I choose!

LET THEM KNOW WE ARE THERE!!!!

[light487]

I'll bet their most keen interest is in taxation, we have an addiction and they are currently not getting their 'share' of the proceeds. The government view the populace in much the same way as a pig farmer sees his animals, he wants to keep the farm running and the collective healthy enough for him to profit from them - nothing more.   

And think about it also that this IS a healthier alternative.. so not only will they get their grubby paws on the tax but they will also have a healthier population to gloat about, plus we will live longer so they can tax us longer, plus we will cost the general health systems (and everything else indirectly related) a lot less.. it's a snowball effect really..

[Jackie]

Woah, I must apologise to all, I was in a hurry earlier and completely misread the quote I was replying to.  I thought the question 'should we start stockpiling in case things go bad' was being posed.  I am ABSOLUTELY NOT saying that any vendor has ANY interest in this kind of scenario.

I will fully support our suppliers, they just like us want the market to remain open after all.

[light487]

So instead of everyone flinging mud at one supplier or another, or one member or another, we should stand together and fight this thing, every vaper in the UK stands to lose, do you really want to be on the sidelines and let the decision be made for you?

Every vaper who sources from the UK as well.. there are many in Europe and Australia, and even USA, who source from UK suppliers.

Not to mention the laws that may spring up in other "like-minded" countries, such as Australia.

[LibertyFlights-Abe]

Is there anything up on righttovape or something similar that summarises the points and also details the actions that every day users and consumers can take to help? I'd be willing to replicate this on our site as I am sure most vendors would.

[Sky..]

Well I just hope that we can all work together and that some good will come out of it.  We all only want the same result 

[Jackie]

I don't think any whacking is necessary, really.

Honestly my words above were a mistake.  I could respond further but all I will do is apologise.

I'm doing my utmost to help with this situation, I'm far from casting stones at anybody.

Again, sorry for any confusion caused.  This is what happens when I'm stressed out and trying to be in 30 places at once.  

[prof beard]

Is there anything up on righttovape or something similar that summarises the points and also details the actions that every day users and consumers can take to help? I'd be willing to replicate this on our site as I am sure most vendors would.

We are planning to put a sticky on UK Vapers - I will also pass this to RtV.  I'm sure Kate will be putting something on Vapers Network too

[elly]

Jackie please don't worry  All is fine we stand as one  We all love Jackie 

[Jackie]

Thanks Elly.    I'm calm now, honest. 

Sticky thread has just gone up over at UK Vapers.  Relevant info will be added to it on an as and when basis. 

[elly]

If this forum starts turning into all the other forums with slanging matches
i for one will walk as much as i love everyone here.
The whole reason i come to this forum is because it is a nice friendly place with no bashing of other people. No matter what your options of others the fact remains we all need to stand together to fight this. There is no need to start slagging each other off if you don't like each other just ignor each others posts and only talk to those you do like.